Saturday, August 13, 2005

Could The DFL Be More Sickening...?

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...yes... yes, I believe they could be. In fact, I am starting to believe that absolutely nothing is considered over the top to the Deranged Far Left.

Here is a disgusting entry from daily kos- one of the very worst anti-America/anti-military places in the world.

Another hat tip to Charles Johnson. (LINK to original post)

[[ We are making errors with references to Cindy Sheehan.

What are we trying to accomplish with promoting her?

Emphasizing her sacrifice.

Emphasizing her stating truth to power.

Emphasizing her plain speaking, clear statements.

Relate her vigil over her dead son to universal archtypes of all vigils over dead children killed by dictatorial rulers throughout all history.

My suggestions below:

1. We should call her “Mother Sheehan”. We should never call her Cindy; I don’t know her. “Mother Sheehan” is her title, and expresses her ceremonial status as a bereaved mother, calling forth over the dead body of her son. She is not a person now, she is a mother, which is not an expression of her individuality, but rather the expression of her eternal character: the mother, the bringer of life who has been wronged by state power.

2. We should use the word “sacrifice”. She has sacrificed the most precious thing a mother has, the life and promise of her child.

3. We should use the word “useless” frequently. The death of her son is a useless sacrifise, done for the vanity of the ruler.

4. We should not use the name of her son. Her son is a symbol of all sons who have been sacrificed for this useless and criminal war.

5. The term “vigil” should be used to describe the persons and their patient petition to the dictatorial ruler. It is a vigil over the body of the dead son, killed by the ruler for his own purposes.

6. The right will try to INDIVIDUALIZE and SPECIALIZE her complaint. We must try to make her cry the UNIVERSAL and ETERNAL cry of all mothers whose children have died at the whim of the tyrannical and dictatorial ruler, who has made the decision to push children to the front of the army for his own, useless purposes. We must seek to make this like funeral vigils over all time. This is not Mother Sheehan’s vigil, this is a vigil over the dead son, killed by the ruler for his own selfish reasons.

7. If there are any persons who are theatre professionals at the Sheenan vigil, they should arrange things much more theatrically.

8. If I was there, I would not let Mother Sheehan talk to the press, but I would have her talk only through a spokesperson. In particular, I would not allow her to argue with critics, and would allow no critics to approach her. Her dignity must be preserved. If lesser emissaries from the ruler arrive (C Rice, etc), these should not be allowed to speak to Mother Sheehan
. ]]

Wow... they do take their "victories" where they can get them, don't they?

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178 Comments:

Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 11:11  
Anonymous Brian said...

While I agree that a mother's nature may be to create and that many mothers may feel innately averse to war, as you said, Morning Star, the point is that this is above and beyond anything approaching sense. Mrs. Sheehan is not the only mother to lose a child in this war. I can't imagine that she's the only mother who has lost a child and disagrees with the Administration and with the war. So why is she the only one we hear about? Why is she so over the top? And why is it believed by some that this is not theatrical enough?

She may be crushed by her son's death, that is her prerogative. But he was a man, and his choice to serve, with the possibility of death, was his own. I don't consider her mourning an insult to his sacrifice, but the circus that she's the star of certainly is. That is the point. It's sickening to see posts like this. It's the sort of thing I might write, with tongue firmly in cheek, "sarcasm" marks all around, and the title "How to Ensure that Nothing We Say or Do is Taken Seriously, Part VIII."

Certainly, not all dissent is from the DFL. Dissent comes from everywhere, at least to some extent. No one I've met, including myself, agrees completely with everything that's been done. We've all got a little armchair general in us. But disgusting dissent, the sort of thing this Kos post represents, is almost trademarked by the DFL.

13/8/05 13:06  
Anonymous tj said...

"Her dignity must be preserved."

hmmm...may be a tad late in that endeavor. hehe

13/8/05 13:17  
Blogger kmg said...

Brian:

"... I don't consider her mourning an insult to his sacrifice, but the circus that she's the star of certainly is. ..."

I completely agree with you... and that is the main point most people who are opposed to her theatrics have been making.

If you watch the cable commercial she just filmed, it will sicken you beyond belief.

13/8/05 13:20  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 13:24  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 13:36  
Anonymous Brian said...

Morning Star, you might have a good chunk of it there on the head, that she's all we've heard of because "the military norms and mores." I can't say for certain, as I am neither mother nor military, nor have I lost any children myself, so my understanding of all this comes from the outside. But from what I gather, there is usually something of a fraternity among military families, and they rarely express their grief this openly, believing that quiet honors their dead better than wailing. I'm still surprised that we've heard of so few, but your thought could very well be a good part of why.

As to her being used politcally by both sides, I can't say as I can argue much. As you said, that's the nature of politics. But as angry as she is at Bush now, especially if any of it is from being used to better his image, she should feel far more angry at the people who are using her now. The President used her fairly benignly (at least compared to what's happening around her now). If she hadn't been adopted by the Left, especially the Far Left, as a posterchild for the people who feel they've been slighted by the Administration, I think she'd be much better off. Right now, it's becoming hard to take her seriously, and her character is being thrown into doubt. If people like the Kos poster have their way, whatever she has left will be utterly destroyed. She will no longer be a person in anyone's minds, which is a fate I wouldn't wish on anyone. It's hard to think of her as a greiving mother rather than as a symbol of Leftish victimhood as it stands. To make this situation more of a circus would make it impossible to remember that she actually has a good reason for tears. I can't say that she's a victim of the Iraq war, but I do think she's become a victim of the quiet war within the US, the ever polarizing war between Right and Left.

13/8/05 13:55  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 14:13  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...and they rarely express their grief this openly, believing that quiet honors their dead better than wailing ..."

That is very true. The reason for it is simple: historically, families of military (especially VOLUNTEER MILITARY) men have used dignity and class in mourning. That is the military way, but it is also the right thing to do.

Think about it. If you really and truly love your son/daughter/husband/etc. and they die in a cause that they believed in... then does it do their memory any good for you to viciously and publically attack that cause? No... it does the exact opposite.

The other thing that is very important here is that her actions are having a very real effect on the morale of our enemies. This will, inevitably, result in more Americans being injured and killed.

Is not the very essence of treason and sedition to strengthen and embolden our enemy?

Why can people not see this simple fact?

13/8/05 14:45  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 15:03  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...Dignity and class is a fine attribute, and sometimes it’s just not the way to go. Who are we to decide!? ..."

By silence, dignity, and class... I meant PUBLICLY. Okay? No one has any right to tell anyone how to grieve privately.

However- Who am I to decide what she does publicy? I'll tell you-

I'm a Marine, and, more importantly, I'm also the father of a Marine.

I strongly believe that her actions right now are putting my son and his fellow military personnel in increased danger. In fact, I know it to be the case- for sure.

I was referring to the morale of THE BAD GUYS, morningstar... not our guys. Get it?

I know that this circus will not hurt our guys' morale too much. Unfortunately, we military types are only too used to seeing the far left attack our causes.

13/8/05 15:16  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 15:18  
Blogger kmg said...

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Thanks, morningstar... that was a very civil and kind thing to say...

:-)

13/8/05 16:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morning Star are you aware that Sen Durbin's comments comparing our military to Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler were played over and over and over again on Al Jazeera. That's what kmg is trying to get through to you. Statements like that aid and abet our enemies. Just like Jane Fonda's did during the Vietnam War. The Viet Cong used her pictures and words as an excuse to torture American POWs. Haven't you ever heard the POWs talk about what her thoughtless, selfish acts did to them? Don't you realize that the terrorists thrive on creating division in the United States. They use our media as a propaganda tool to further their sick cause. Don't you understand that our soldiers in Iraq know how they are being treated here at home. It hurts their morale and makes their job tougher. We should be united against a common enemy, not calling the President vicious names even if you don't agree with this war.

13/8/05 16:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the terrorists can use the media to turn Americans completely against this war, they will have won because it will turn into another Vietnam.

SAJ

13/8/05 16:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember bin Laden saying that Americans are weak. They have no stomach for war. He and his minions are watching that play out every day in the media. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows all about Cindy Sheehan and it probably brings him great joy. Think about it. Seems like bin Laden knows us better than we know ourselves.

SAJ

13/8/05 16:38  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 16:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At every turn in the war, our home-grown U.S. haters have used their treasure chests, positions, and talents to miscast our country, soldiers and law enforcement as the aggressor while portraying the enemy as victim. Considerable more “civil rights” and benefit of the doubt is extended to the enemy than our own elected officials, soldiers, and law-abiding citizens. This has emboldened the enemy and is prolonging the war.

A quote from Rabbi Spero

13/8/05 16:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morning Star I'm glad you respect the president. The problem is that those who don't are vicious in their attacks during a critical time in our country's battle against terrorism. No one is saying people should not speak openly in opposition to the president. It's the way that they are doing it that is sickening. I'm sure you've heard it all - Bush is Hitler, Bush is worse than Saddam, Bush is behind 9/11, Bush lied, etc. People that support the president are rightly questioning whether those people are secretly wishing for us to fail in this war. To them it's all about regaining the White House, no matter what, no matter how low they have to go to do it.
Morning Star have you mellowed or is it my imagination.

SAJ

13/8/05 17:04  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 17:07  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 17:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a couple of really good paragraphs from Oliver North on Hanoi Jane and her upcoming blame- America-first tour she'll be taking in her bus powered by vegetable oil:

Jane, start in the South. Southerners are naturally hospitable. Take in the D-Day Museum in New Orleans. It's full of surprises. You like the canard that "Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11." Well, the Germans didn't attack us at Pearl Harbor, but we fought them anyhow. A bit of advice if I may: Bring your own mechanic. Though the south has its fair share of farms, Cooter's Garage outlets, and NASCAR fans, no self-respecting mechanic is going to fix a broken down vegetable oil-powered bus.

Then, swing by a few sites in Texas to tell soldiers they're "fighting and dying for lies." Fort Hood -- home of the 4th Infantry Division -- might work. These soldiers that I covered for FOX News have already spent a year in Iraq -- and they are getting ready to go again! They clearly need your help because they are reenlisting at a phenomenal pace -- the unit has already exceeded its retention goals for the entire year.

The Burn Unit at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston would surely have a few of the soldiers you claim to support; perhaps they'd be interested to hear your opinions about the low value of their disfiguring sacrifices. CENTCOM, Fort Stewart, Camp Lejeune and Fort Bragg, the home of our Special Forces, are all "must sees" along the way.

Finally, Jane, you'll want to finish in our nation's capital. When you get there, pick up Teddy Kennedy and Dick Durbin. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they relate their historical analogies to the boys over at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the National Naval Medical Center.

Be sure to visit the graves of America's heroes at Arlington Cemetery before making your final stop at a polished granite wall on the National Mall. There, you will find inscribed the names of 58,249 heroes you spat upon when perched atop that VC gun.

Hopefully at some point during your Jihadist journey, you will bump into Sgt. Christopher Missick of the 319th Signal Battalion. While in Iraq, Missick met hundreds of good Americans through his blog, "A Line in the Sand." Home now, he and a fellow veteran are driving around the country -- fueled by conventional gasoline -- to meet some of the patriots -- his "web of support" -- who sent letters, packages and prayers. He wants to personally thank them and "meet the heart of America."

That's the kind of support the troops appreciate, not your caravan of craven critics.

Oh, Ollie, you have a way with words!

SAJ

13/8/05 17:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morning Star my mother (ever the woman who runs from a conflict) constantly reminds me that "the truth lies somewhere in the middle", and the ever popular, "there's two sides to every story." I agree with that, except there are times when you have to take a stand no matter what. But, that being said, it should never be done at the price of dishonoring your son's memory or aiding and abetting the enemy, which is what Cindy Sheehan is doing. She is giving comfort to the very same people who are responsible for killing him. I think her energy would be better spent starting an organization to help wounded soldiers recover from their injuries. Or maybe she could start a scholarship in her son's memory for children of soldiers killed on active duty. All this anger is destroying her. I know it sounds silly, but take lemons and make lemonade.

About Ann Coulter, I think she is a stitch. Do I always agree with everything she says, no. I didn't like her comments about Clinton at all and I did vote for him, something I now regret because I feel he is mostly to blame for 9/11.

SAJ

13/8/05 17:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Does anyone remember bin Laden saying that Americans are weak. They have no stomach for war. He and his minions are watching that play out every day in the media. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows all about Cindy Sheehan and it probably brings him great joy. Think about it. Seems like bin Laden knows us better than we know ourselves.

SAJ"

bin Laden?

ETL

13/8/05 18:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-kmg

"The other thing that is very important here is that her actions are having a very real effect on the morale of our enemies. This will, inevitably, result in more Americans being injured and killed."

How exactly does this work? With particular focis on"This will, inevitably, result in more Americans being injured and killed."

Can you forego the smarmy one-liners about loonie-lefties and just give a rational explanantion of your logic.

If you respect me....

ETL

13/8/05 18:12  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 18:15  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Thankfully, Not many are buying into this sideshow put on by the anti-war crowd. Only about 50 people showed up in Crawford (not counting the media) I had twice that at my yard sale today

13/8/05 18:31  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 18:39  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Dear Morning Star,
I have seen what is going on out in Crawford and they really are vultures. I had my doubts, but now I'm certain.
Someone should tell that crowd to make sure to clean the flesh out of their teeth before they nest down for the night.

13/8/05 18:43  
Blogger Eliminator said...

PS: It is not hate that drives me but love for my country and the soldiers that serve.

13/8/05 18:45  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 18:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morning Star this would be my answer to Steven:

Maybe you don't pay attention to the abusive and disgusting language coming from the left. Maybe Republicans are just fighting back after 4 years of abuse from the left. Actually, I always try to watch my language when I post. I try to be as respectful as possible, unless I am viciously attacked first. Actually, I don't think you are really a Republican now that I think about it or you would realize the left has made an art of slinging mud the last 4 years.

13/8/05 18:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mostly, I look at it from a mother’s perspective regardless and don’t try to figure out what’s best for her. It really isn’t my place. (I hate it when people try to force me to doing something or force something on me “for my own good.” Grrrrr!)

Morning Star, I am reminded of that scene in Moonstruck where Cher tells ... I forgot who... "snap out of it." A friend of value tells you what you need to hear not what you want to hear. Unfortunately for Cindy Sheehan, she has no friends of value around her right now. There comes a time when you have to slap someone in the face to bring them back around to reality. I pity her. It's actually painful to watch. If she really cares about helping the soldiers in Iraq, she would do what I suggested before. Yet, she is allowing herself to be used in a horrible way. I think the fact that her husband and children are silent about this says a lot.

SAJ

13/8/05 19:11  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 19:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How exactly does this work? With particular focis on"This will, inevitably, result in more Americans being injured and killed."

heres a sugestion, ask a pow from nam about hanoi jane. youll find your answer there

13/8/05 19:22  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 19:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morning Star, my parent are liberal Democrats and I voted Republican for the first time. Interesting. I took a hard look at what the Democratic party has become and realized I didn't like what it stood for anymore. I still consider myself an environmentalist. There I am strongly with Democrats. But you have to place your priorities in order and my children are my first priority. National security goes hand in hand with that. I had to look at the "anything goes, tolerate everything" mentality coming from the far left, and I realized I didn't like it. I also got more than a little tired of the Christian bashing coming from the left, especially their insistance on trying to change the history of this country, rejecting our Judeo-Christian values. Things like you can't say "one nation under God" in the pledge. It has gotten out of control, and I think the average American has finally woken up to that and is saying enough is enough.

Regarding Cindy, I think you are right. Eventually, this will all die down and she will be forgotten. I hope then she can heal.

GOD BLESS AMERICA
AMEN TO THAT

Good night for now. It's late here.

SAJ

13/8/05 19:37  
Blogger Morning Star said...

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13/8/05 19:45  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...How exactly does this work? With particular focis on"This will, inevitably, result in more Americans being injured and killed." ..."

Okay... let's flash back to the early nineties.

United States Army Soldiers in Somalia (starting to sound familiar?)... helicopter goes down (remember the movie?)... BODIES DRAGGED THROUGHT THE DUSTY STREETS (oh, yeah- it was in all the papers)...

I remember that... I was knee deep in it at the time.

I also remember our Commander-In-Chief cutting and running... scared poopless of the media and the implications of actual American casualties (gee, Mr. President, maybe you should have thought of that BEFORE you sent us in).

We left... we just up and left.

Guess who was watching...?

Yep... osama (?)... yeah, THAT osama (?).

Turns out that was the just impetus they needed to get busy on the first WTC attack. Don't believe me, they're the ones who said it. Remember, "Americans have no stomach for war... kill some of them and they run home..."

Cindy Sheehan's shameful actions now are an even more powerful gift to the terrorists than the bodies in the streets... all courtesy of the far left and their media stooges.

Please, by all means, tell me this is not the truth... I'd love to see that argument.

13/8/05 19:52  
Blogger kmg said...

G'night, SAJ... thanks for the contributions to this discussion.

13/8/05 19:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the moral-right. No one shall oppose our rule. You are all slaves unless you agree with us in this Fascist Democracy.

We are bound by God to do the right thing by freeing oppressed people from enslavement even if it costs them their lives.

You will either be freed by conformance or we will liberate you of life and limb or both.

We are the moral right.

13/8/05 20:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the moral right.

We are responsible for all of the freedom in the World.

We believe in less government, unless you are adhering to a different form of government than ours, in which the case is that we must invade you and kill as many dissenters as possible until we have enforced our rule upon you.

No one. No one. Shall have nuclear technology except the United States. We will use our power to generate electricity peacefully, but we keep a certain amount of technology in reserve to kill you if you attempt to be like us. In the meantime, learn to love depleted uranium because we will be littering the planet with depleted uranium in your country so that we don’t have to store it in ours.

Who do you think you are? The U.S.?

Absolutely not! We are the most powerful country in the world and if anyone is going to oppress you it will be us. You WILL NOT have creature comforts unless we give them to you.

13/8/05 20:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is useless to resist us!

If we decide that you must die to be liberated, then it is Gods choice and George W. bush has been commissioned by God to execute the entire planet if need be to enforce the rule of the right wing of the United States of America.

We own everything. You will get in line and stay in line. If we say it, do not question it, it is the Truth, the Light and the Way.

We have nothing to fear but fear its self, because we own the state media, the pundits, the Oil, the infrastructure and every powerful, wealthy family in the world.

They do nothing without our consent. We are the moral right. All others are dust. We hate everyone, except us.

13/8/05 20:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill Clinton received oral sex in the oral office; therefore, we will return morality to this country by killing service members of the Army and Marine Corps in droves to make our point. We will not stand for tawdry sex. All brown-skinned people are doomed to pay the price of the infidelity of William Clinton. We will lie, cheat, steal; violate the laws of the United States and murder dissenters if we cannot have our way in the absence of the prosecution of William Clinton. We are torn by the actions of the former President.

13/8/05 21:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you see death on the television screen. Think of us. We are facilitators of Death. Let each day that passes, and the extension of our moral clarity be represented by the images on your television screen of disemboweled soldiers hanging from bridges, severed heads and the light show of car bombs. We are a force to be reckoned with and we will prevail. Let no man experience freedom without or blessing.

13/8/05 21:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How dare you judge us by Gods word! We are the reason for Gods word. God serves us. If we do anything, God agrees with us. He understands our power and wishes not a confrontation with us. We are the facilitators of Armageddon. God understands that we have made the rules that he must follow. We are Gods. We are all powerful. WE ARE THE MORAL RIGHT! God and we are one, but we are the facilitators. We are the moral right. We are not human. Mistakes are for humans. Humans are expendable. We are the illuminated ones. You have heard of us. Now, you finally meet us and you understand our powers.

13/8/05 21:25  
Blogger kmg said...

-
Wow... that was a mouthful...

You're so cool for being able to rant like that... I wish I was cool like that.

I especially liked that part where you champion countries like Iran gaining nuclear weapons... that was uber-cool!

Don't stop there... please regale us with more of you wit. Seriously... I eat this stuff up!

(By the way, did President Bush once steal a girlfriend from you or something? Just asking...)

13/8/05 21:29  
Blogger Barbara said...

Here you can find the answer to the question posed on the other post:
WHERE is her husband??

Cindy Sheehan: Changing stories of family solidarity
http://angrygwn.mu.nu/archives/111787.php

You'll find answers to lots of questions here!

And, to those who love Michelle Malkin, you'll find her latest post of interest as well -
"Yes, Cindy Sheehan changed her story" http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003245.htm

13/8/05 21:33  
Blogger husker_met said...

That is very true. The reason for it is simple: historically, families of military (especially VOLUNTEER MILITARY) men have used dignity and class in mourning. That is the military way, but it is also the right thing to do.

As I have said previously, what is the most disturbing to me about Cindy Sheehan is not her view on the GWOT.

It is the public lamentations, which seem to me to be for effect.

The traditional stoicism of military families is rooted in the Athenian tradition, and carried through our particular branch of Western civilization via the British.

Athenians honored their war dead quietly, but second guessed their leadership very publicly. It was an honor to die for the state, even if you disagreed with the state's objectives. The two concepts were never joined, as in "My son died needlessly for a corrupt administration." Rather, "My son died for his country honorably. But I do not agree with the administration."

Greek women were in fact forbidden to publicly grieve, for fear that it would hurt the morale of other mothers whose sons were still in battle. They were free to argue against the government, but not to the extent that they brough any fallen sons or husbands into the argument. To do so was to completely dishonor the warrior tradition.

That is a very fine line, but one that, in best faith with anti-war types with whom I disagree, I feel has been crossed.

The upshot of the approach I think Sheehan is taking is that rather than questioning and replacing leadership on concrete terms, she seeks to dilute the leadership capacity of a sitting president through an emotional appeal hinging on the death of her son.

What offends me the most is that while Cindy Sheehan demands the right to essentially tell off a sitting president, fully 1800 other mothers have had sons and daughters who died equally honorable deaths. So what makes Cindy feel like she is special?

The idea of the noble lone protester seeking redress is all good and well. But what's the redress here? Casey is dead and telling off Bush serves no other purpose than to salve her ego/emotions/personal opinions. He's not coming back by mom giving bad ol' Bush a piece of her mind.

Sheehan has to know this to be true. Therefore I think the only conclusion that can be made here is that her seeking "answers" is simply grandstanding, not for the benefit of her son, nor for the benefit of the honor of other fallen sons and daughters. She has assumed the role of "victim" (i.e. "Bush killed my son") in order to press an idea (i.e. "Bush policies will kill your son too) with more force.

It's a pretty common coercive technique in rhetoric. Personal negative experience lends credibility to an argument that might otherwise have no traction. Prosecutors do a version of this every day in courtrooms by getting juries to identify with victims.

In the end, the salient question everyone, whether pro- or anti-war, needs to ask is "What does Cindy Sheehan hope to achieve?" An honest reflection on this question, in light of the many others who share her experience, tends to make me dismiss all of the emotionalism of the issue, and suspect her true motives.

13/8/05 21:56  
Blogger kmg said...

Husker_Met:

Thanks for the thoughtful and VERY pertinent history lesson... it highlights that there is definitely a method to why we do as we do.

Not to be forgotten, though, is the deleterious effect all of this will have on our war effor... and, subsequently, the HEALTH AND WELFARE of our troops.

Left, Right, middle... it doesn't matter where you are politically as an American. The important thing is: as an American, are you going to do something that will endanger our troops unnecessarily...? Or, are you going to stop acting like ridiculous children and truly support them?

Sadly, many of the forces which are now in control of Cindy Sheehan want nothing more than for our troops to die in greater numbers... and for us to leave Iraq in shame... defeated. They want that more than I wanted that Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas in 1971. They want it B A D !!

Wanna know a secret, though? They won't get it. No way. I firmly believe that truth will prevail here... somehow, some way. Guess it's the optimistic American in me...

13/8/05 22:20  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice Shot!

A bomb drops from a Stealth fighter over Tehran and 3,ooo, ooo people are obliterated.

We have never seen such destruction.

This is a Fox news Update:

This is Laurie Dhue bringing you an update of the situation in Iran. We are just receiving reports from our post outside Erzurum, Turkey because that is the only place safe enough to witness the carnage. Linda Vestor…Linda joins us? Can you hear me?

Linda: Yeah. Yes, Laurie I hear you. Sorry for the delay but the satellite link up is…can you hear me?

Laurie: yeah, go ahead, Linda.

Linda: Well, Laurie, it is unfortunate that Tehran did not head the warnings of the United States, but all of the speculation that led up to this point has come to pass and I must tell you…I mean we saw a huge cl…huge cloud…a literal cloud…I have never seen anyth…nothing I have ever seen compares to this and we were go…

Laurie: Linda…sorry…sorry for interrupting, b

Linda: Go ahead...yeah…go ahead

Laurie: but Linda, did you hear explosions? I was wonderi…

Linda: No. Laurie. No. We didn’t hear explosions, as in plural… we heard only one explosion and it rocked the entire city of Erzurum, which is literally hundreds of miles away…there was…the pentagon informed us that there would only be one artillery shell dropped…that what they

Laurie: artill…

Linda: yeah, that’s how they referred to the device as artillery for us media types, ha. But, it is still like there is a light, or a haze…I don’t know how to explain what I am seeing but, the military guy…well, we have a Lieutenant from the Naval Submarine Support Facility from Groton with us to kind of…expl…

Laurie: Linda…Linda…can you…Linda can you hear me?

Linda: yeah..yeah..Lau..yeah…Laurie, go ahead

Laurie: Linda? Can the Lieutenant hear me?

Linda: Yeah..go ahead…(she’s got a question for you sir)

Laurie: Sir. How do you read the situation?

Lt. Price: Well Laurie, we knew that this would be the case. We’ve done the math and back in September we projected the fallout would affect most of Western Iran and Eastern Turkey, and now we’re monitoring the wind patterns to determine what other countries will be affected. Laurie, we are going t…

Laurie: Sir. No…No go ahead.

Lt Price: well…we are going to need to suit up pretty soon just in case our estimates were righ…




Laurie: Well, it appears we lost the satellite connection but we will try to re-establish the connection and report any news, but for now stay tuned to Fox news for the latest updates on Operation Nuclear Winter.

13/8/05 22:27  
Blogger kmg said...

Hey, that was cool! Kinda like that show back in the 80's... "The Day After"... you remember, the one that was a prophecy of the death and destruction President Reagan was going to cause...

Wow... could you be any more of a caricature...?

Seek help... immediately...

13/8/05 22:33  
Blogger kmg said...

Or... you could just get a job in hollow-wood... they are ALWAYS looking for moonbat talent like yours...

13/8/05 22:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

13/8/05 22:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the tin-pot dictator of this site. All followers agree with me. They are one with me.

We deserve everything we get!

We may be threatened by the Left and we may fear the terrorists, but we...

Our god can beat up their God.

13/8/05 22:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

George Bush is a coward!

13/8/05 22:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I overuse the word caricature. All people of this site obey me!

I am the dictator of this site.

13/8/05 22:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are scripted!

All comments are rehearsed at our meetings so that we do not stray from the goal of opression.

13/8/05 22:50  
Blogger kmg said...

Yay! Our first "Bush is a coward" poster on this thread! I was starting to worry... it's been hours and hours since a moonbat chanted that one.

Here's one for you... guaranteed to repel anyone allergic to facts (this means you, troll)...

BUSH'S-COWARDICE

13/8/05 22:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am so powerful, I am starting to scare myself.

13/8/05 22:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am God. All shall bow down before me. I am the dictator of this site.

None shall enter except by me.

13/8/05 22:53  
Blogger kmg said...

Wait a minute... you can't be the dictator of this site... I'M the dictator of this site!!

Oh, wait... that was a "caricature" of me being a dictator and using the word "caricature" too much, wasn't it...?

I get it now...

Hey, you're pretty funny... you should look into doing that for a living!

13/8/05 22:53  
Blogger kmg said...

Do you really think I'm overdoing it like that? I was worried... but at rehearsal, they all said "no, you're doing great!"

I knew they were lying to me...!

Thanks, stranger... I owe you one!

13/8/05 22:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We own the media!

All shall bow down before us, and obey!

All non-people like us want something they can never have.

13/8/05 22:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We will obliterate Iran. And god will cover his eyes.

13/8/05 22:57  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...We own the media! ..."

Oh, wait! Now you're talking about the liberals...

I'm confused... are you against everyone and everything? Are you one of those an-arch-ists...?

13/8/05 22:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We do not deny that Iran is next on our list of evil regimes.

We will lie. We will murder. We will distort, in the name of Evil and in the name of Good.

13/8/05 23:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Iran must cease to exist.

13/8/05 23:02  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the moral right.

Our kind are exempt from prosecution of Justice.

We are justice.

We are Gods.

We are the moral right.

13/8/05 23:04  
Blogger kmg said...

Hey, you're like the Energizer Bunny... you just keep going (nowhere)... and going (nowhere)... and going (nowhere)...

13/8/05 23:06  
Blogger kmg said...

Is that what I have to look forward to someday if I am ever consumed by irrational hatred, like you...?

Wow... I feel like Ebeneezer Scrooge after the Ghost of Christmas Future showed him a clip from how things might turn out if he didn't wise up!

No hate for me!!

13/8/05 23:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the righteous dictator of this site.

I stand vigil to ensure that no one dare to question us.

I, kmg, and Husker_met (whatever that means) are morally correct. All others shall bow down before us.

13/8/05 23:09  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...All others shall bow down before us. ..."

Well... it would be kinda nice if you would... you know... bow down... but just a little bit!

Okay...?

13/8/05 23:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the moral right.

We love blood! We drink the blood of the innocent! As Satan would have it.

We are the moral right.

We benefit from the blood of innocent soldiers. We revel in the pain and suffering of others.

We believe that George Bush deserves to be the True King of the Israelites.

We denounce the teachings of Christ.

We spat upon our Bibles. Might Makes Right.

We shall never turn our swords to plowshares.

We get everything we want when we get part of you.

Offer us your flesh and bone.

13/8/05 23:19  
Blogger kmg said...

Hey, Husker_met:

You made it... they hate you, too!

*High-Five*

13/8/05 23:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We shall never participate in war. We leave that to the poor and the patriotic.

They shall die for our sins.

We are Gods.

We are the moral right.

We are the force neo-con.

13/8/05 23:20  
Blogger kmg said...

-
" ...Might Makes Right ..."

Ummm... minor point here... you actually put it backwards... I was going with the whole 'Right Makes Might' motif... ya know?

Sorry for correcting... carry on with your hatefest...

13/8/05 23:21  
Blogger kmg said...

-
Umm... sorry for interrupting again... but there's another correction... just a little one, though...

You said " ... We shall never participate in war. We leave that to the poor and the patriotic. ... "

Technically, that one is wrong... I've been to war... oh, and I am also poor AND patriotic...

So... you can see that one doesn't really work.

Okay... back to it... carry on!

13/8/05 23:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might Makes Right!

We are Gods.

13/8/05 23:24  
Blogger kmg said...

Time for a random, but pertinent, quote:

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

--Teddy Roosevelt

13/8/05 23:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the mightiest.

We are always right.

13/8/05 23:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bow down before the one you serve.

13/8/05 23:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the American Political system.

None shall enter the gates unless through us.

13/8/05 23:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might makes Right.

We are the World Superpower.

We decide who lives or dies.

13/8/05 23:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the only force to be reckoned with.

Comply or die.

13/8/05 23:32  
Blogger kmg said...

-
Are you just really bored... or what?

It's okay if you are... I mean... I'm glad I could be here for you and all... but... geez, dude... try something new.

13/8/05 23:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our methods are not right or wrong.

Our methods are our methods.

We decide who lives or dies.

13/8/05 23:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are walking down the road one day and you suddenly feel your throat exploding out the front of your neck, then feel two more rounds entering your back, don’t be confused as you fall to the ground through the red mist of your own blood.
Just know that it was me.

The taker of Life.

The moral right.

13/8/05 23:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Comply or die.

13/8/05 23:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question not our methods.

13/8/05 23:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

None. Not even God himself, questions our methods.

We are Gods.

We are the moral right.

13/8/05 23:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the moral right.

We elevate ourselves above all others.

We denounce Christ and his teachings.

We take from the Bible only what we need.

We are the moral right.

13/8/05 23:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might Makes Right.

13/8/05 23:46  
Blogger kmg said...

-
Hey... would you mind if I started using that "comply or die" thing? That is VERY cool...!

It is quite catchy...

13/8/05 23:47  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those who possess the power of the atom, possess the world.

13/8/05 23:49  
Blogger kmg said...

Hey, crazy dude...

I'm going to bed in a bit here... don't get mad because I won't be paying attention to you. I promise to come back in the morning and see what new poop you have left on my site... okay?

Now you scamper off and take your medication...

c-ya...

13/8/05 23:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We possess the World Superpower.

We posses the atom.

13/8/05 23:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right does not equal Might.

13/8/05 23:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might Makes Right

13/8/05 23:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the dictator of this site.

I am the dictator.

I am the I am.

14/8/05 00:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Troops' Body Armor Being Replaced Again



U.S. Troops Begin Afghan Offensive


Four officers killed, two others wounded in Chechnya



Canadian soldiers extra cautious as they patrol roads in southern Afghanistan

14/8/05 00:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Troops' Body Armor Being Replaced Again


U.S. Troops Begin Afghan Offensive


Four officers killed, two others wounded in Chechnya


Canadian soldiers extra cautious as they patrol roads in southern Afghanistan


Progress but no deal on Iraqi constitution

14/8/05 00:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We have nothing to fear...

but we fear anyway.

14/8/05 00:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cindy Sheehan is a grieving, sweaty bitch!

14/8/05 00:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cindy Sheehan should be executed by the Secret Service.

14/8/05 00:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might Makes Right

14/8/05 00:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might Makes Right.

You are wrong!

14/8/05 00:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are the Worlds Greatest Superpower!

Our Might Makes Us Right!

The World Belongs To Us.

We are The Moral Right.

We are Weak Without Might!

14/8/05 00:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Comply or die!

14/8/05 00:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Osama is Coming!

14/8/05 00:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Make No attempt To Capture Osama!

14/8/05 00:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Osama Must Remain Free!

14/8/05 00:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We Know where Osama Is!

We Knew Where Osama Was!

Though His Actions Are Unjust, Do Not Attempt To Capture Osama!

Let Him Be Free!

He is Required To Perpetuate Fear.

We Require Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace!

We ARE the Moral Right!

14/8/05 00:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bin Laden Family Was Flown To The Safety of Saud, While All Other Planes In The U.S. Were Grounded, Two-Days After September 11, 2001.

None Of The bin Laden Family members Were Questioned.

DO NOT attempt to capture Osama!

14/8/05 01:03  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Osama Is Free!

Cindy Sheehan Should Be Imprisoned!

Leave Osama Be.

14/8/05 01:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

28 Days Remain.

14/8/05 01:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Osama Has Been A Free Man Since September 11, 2001.

14/8/05 01:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soon We Will See The Four-Year Mark

14/8/05 01:14  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey kmg - I'm East Coast, everyone else must be West Coast, either that or I just go to bed earlier than everyone else.

Anyway, I just read the latest posts and they were a scream. I showed my teenage son a couple and he got a laugh out of it too. He's off to college next year and I told him "that's what happens when you get indoctrinated by a far left wing liberal professor." "Your brain turns to mush." You think looney tunes will visit again?

I'm off to church. I'm sure looney tunes has never been in a church, except maybe "The Church of the Holy Flower Power".

SAJ

14/8/05 04:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm back. We sang some of my favorite hymns:

He's a Republican God

and my all time favorite

God Bless Republicans

and the sermon was very moving. It was entitled, "Do Democrats Make it to Heaven?"

SAJ

14/8/05 06:45  
Blogger kmg said...

SAJ,

Yep... west coast here.

Yeah, that guy was a classic... I was showing my daughter and we were laughing hysterically.

You know... I think it might have been michael moore... or at least one of the crazies who prays to his lardship...

14/8/05 07:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

kmg - my husband and I are going to ride up to Gettysburg, our favorite place to walk. There's a 9 mile walk we like to do through the battlefields. Thinking about the blood and gore as we walk just gets our hearts racing. It makes us want to go out and kill someone! It's hotter than you know what here. Better take plenty of water so we'll have the energy to quench our blood lust.

Later

SAJ

14/8/05 07:56  
Blogger kmg said...

Ah, blood lust... now THERE is something that we evil Conservatives know well!

:-)

Have a great day... thanks for the superb input!

14/8/05 08:25  
Blogger Eliminator said...

TIME mag reports in new editions on Monday: Sheehan gets support from her surviving son, Andy, in principle, but he recently sent her a long e-mail imploring her, "to come home because you need to support us at home."

"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.

Sheehan is a inch away from being that "Crazy Aunt at the family picnic"

14/8/05 08:51  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Didn't Cindy Sheehan say her husband Patrick completly agreed with her and that he would write a letter in support of her?? Nope, just another lie



Report Selection Criteria

Case ID: FFL087021
Docket Start Date:
Docket Ending Date:


Case Description

Case ID: FFL087021 - SHEEHAN, PATRICK VS. CINDY
Filing Date: Friday , August 12th, 2005
Type: D - Dissolution without kids
Status: none
http://courtconnect.solanocourts.com/pls/bprod_cc/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?case_id=FFL087021

This is very sad indeed

14/8/05 09:16  
Blogger kmg said...

Eliminator,

Thanks for the input... I am not even slightly surprised at any of it. What kind of person would want to be associated with this circus...?

I mean... right or left- whatever... how could you make a tv commercial that says "Why did you murder my son, President Bush? Why???"

Good Lord... she already is that crazy aunt...

14/8/05 09:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is almost too quiet. You could hear an American Flag lapel pin drop.

14/8/05 12:49  
Blogger kmg said...

It's quiet enough to hear the last bits of credibility Cindy Sheehan had fall to the floor and shatter...

14/8/05 13:10  
Blogger Eliminator said...

My thoughts exactly

14/8/05 14:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You gotta be a wealthy republican donor to get 10 minutes of the presidents time? What’s his rate – about $10,000 a minute?

14/8/05 15:13  
Blogger kmg said...

If I were the President, I would rent some circus clowns to go out and talk to her... you know, fight fire with fire.

14/8/05 16:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Circus Clowns. Yeah, Karl, Rummy, Condi & Co. would be a good choice.

I never heard of the administration referred to as Circus Clowns, but they would be a good choice to go talk to her while they aren't employed by Ringling Bros.

Maybe they could bring the shrimp-chimp along to swing from a tree and do monkey tricks.

14/8/05 17:14  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

kmg - I'm back from Gettysburg. My blood lust has been satisfied. We only did 8 miles this time. It was sooo hot! I thought you might be interested in this letter from another soldier. He wrote this one to his wife right before going into battle. We have it on cd. I get a lump in my throat every time I listen to it. It was also read in the PBS Civil War series by Ken Burns.

July 14, 1861
Camp Clark, Washington

My very dear Sarah:
The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days—perhaps tomorrow. Lest I should not be able to write again, I feel impelled to write a few lines that may fall under your eye when I shall be no more . . .

I have no misgivings about, or lack of confidence in the cause in which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter. I know how strongly American Civilization now leans on the triumph of the Government and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and sufferings of the Revolution. And I am willing—perfectly willing—to lay down all my joys in this life, to help maintain this Government, and to pay that debt . . .

Sarah my love for you is deathless, it seems to bind me with mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break; and yet my love of Country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me unresistibly on with all these chains to the battle field.

The memories of the blissful moments I have spent with you come creeping over me, and I feel most gratified to God and to you that I have enjoyed them for so long. And hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when, God willing, we might still have lived and loved together, and seen our sons grown up to honorable manhood, around us. I have, I know, but few and small claims upon Divine Providence, but something whispers to me—perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar, that I shall return to my loved ones unharmed. If I do not my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you, and when my last breath escapes me on the battle field, it will whisper your name. Forgive my many faults and the many pains I have caused you. How thoughtless and foolish I have often times been! How gladly would I wash out with my tears every little spot upon your happiness . . .

But, O Sarah! If the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you; in the gladdest days and in the darkest nights . . . always, always, and if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall be my breath, as the cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by. Sarah do not mourn me dead; think I am gone and wait for thee, for we shall meet again . . .

Sullivan Ballou was killed a week later at the first Battle of Bull Run, July 21, 1861.

14/8/05 17:21  
Blogger kmg said...

Wow... your clever reparte has me stunned... I've never seen anyone lambast the President and his administration quite that well before...

You're awesome... good job, citizen... be proud and sleep well tonight... you have roundly smacked the President!

That makes you like, a rebel or something...

14/8/05 17:22  
Blogger kmg said...

Very touching, SAJ... thanks for sharing!

I hope concerned citizens like some of these ones here held Lincoln accountable for that soldier's death! What an outrage! Imagine... someone having to actually die for his country!!!

I bought the book today... already been peeking a bit at it!

14/8/05 17:24  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Anonymous said...

"Circus Clowns. Yeah, Karl, Rummy, Condi & Co. would be a good choice."

I think we could probably use you for the circus. You can come as my pet pig.

Too bad we can't throw a towel over Cindy Sheehan's cage

14/8/05 17:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, this guy was a true patriot. He believed in the cause for which he was fighting and was willing to give his life at the expense of his family to support that cause.

Remind you of any one else we know... Casey Sheehan

SAJ

14/8/05 17:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You're awesome... good job, citizen... be proud and sleep well tonight... you have roundly smacked the President!"

I am sure that you were equally as devoted to Bill Clinton during his reign. Ya know, as you have indicated in your posts. What a Patriot, citizen!

"You can come as my pet pig."

It'll be fun. Me, you, Rummy, Condi...like pigs in a poke.

14/8/05 17:42  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Anonymous said...



" I am sure that you were equally as devoted to Bill Clinton during his reign. Ya know, as you have indicated in your posts. What a Patriot, citizen!"

"It'll be fun. Me, you, Rummy, Condi...like pigs in a poke."

I want to thank you Anonymous. I had forgotten all about Clinton...but when you mentioned him and "Poke" I remembered where I left my cigars

14/8/05 17:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kmg I'm so glad you took my advice. You won't regret it. In case you missed it eliminator, we're talking about Bernie Goldberg's book "100 People who are Screwing Up America". AWESOME BOOK!!!! Read it if you haven't yet.

SAJ

14/8/05 18:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-ejaculator

Come on, now. Be honest. You guys still spend alot of time and energy thinking about Bill Clinton.

I am grateful for the sideshow between you guys and the Dems. That is a Circus act that never gets old.

The DFL's v. FRJ's

14/8/05 18:12  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Anonymous said...

"ejaculator"

" Come on, now. Be honest. You guys still spend alot of time and energy thinking about Bill Clinton."

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

14/8/05 18:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

eliminator - It's a sure sign of low intelligence when someone uses language like that.

SAJ

14/8/05 18:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You mean like that reference to a cigar. That’s classy innuendo. Now, drop and give me 20 hail-Marys.

Just more hypocrisy to be pointed up to the self-righteous losers, who needed to be reminded once in awhile that they still possess the sinner gene.

14/8/05 18:40  
Blogger Eliminator said...

SAJ,

Yes it is. But on the upside the vulgar language and ignorance makes it easier for us to spot those liberals

14/8/05 18:43  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Anonymous said...

"Just more hypocrisy to be pointed up to the self-righteous losers, who needed to be reminded once in awhile that they still possess the sinner gene."

Check the Yellow Pages for a 12-step program in your area.

PS: You should keep up with current events, last time I checked it was the liberals that were losers. Please see the November election results....

14/8/05 18:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

True eliminator, I had thought of that myself.

SAJ

14/8/05 18:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I miss debating Morning Star. She has class for someone just left of center.

SAJ

14/8/05 19:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-Sociopathic Alarmist Jihadi

Your limited knowledge of the English language and lack of maturity are showing again.

Now zip up your pants and go look the word up in the dictionary.

The definition makes no reference to something you experienced during your naughty time in the bathroom.

So, your inference to the word being used in the vernacular was baseless and made you look very unintelligent.

Don’t let your hatred limit your scope, ok? And, don’t hate the American Dictionary. It is your friend.

14/8/05 19:01  
Blogger Eliminator said...

SAJ,
I had missed most of those posts, but when I have time I may go back and read them

Goodnight

14/8/05 19:07  
Blogger Eliminator said...

Anonymous,
Go get some sleep, you probably have an early appointment with your parole officer and I don't want to keep you up.

And remember even you can acquire the proper intelligence and background if you are motivated enough

14/8/05 19:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-ejaculator

"Check the Yellow Pages for a 12-step program in your area."

I will see if I can find a number for you. Are you going to email it to the Crawford Ranch?

From what page of the Fundamentally Republican Jihadist Handbook are you getting your anti-liberal responses?

14/8/05 19:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-eliminator

How about we dispense with the male bonding routine and have an actual debate.

And, who knows, maybe we can even agree on some things.

14/8/05 19:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ben Stein on the real heroes:

“How many of today’s incredibly buff, muscular, well-toned, super-healthy muscle men stars do you think volunteer to fight terrorists in any part whatsoever” Stein asked a group of 200 students. He considers American soldiers to be the real stars.

“The real stars are wearing body armor on top of their battle dress uniforms in 130 degree heat and they do not have stunt doubles to come in for them when the going gets rough and the bullets and the shrapnel start flying,” said Ben. “They are the real stars, fighting terrorism and trying to free a nation.”

Stein considers America “the light of the world” with a “nation of heroes.” But he claims the media powers distort the past and present reality and college professors place Americans on an equal scale with terrorists. Stein says they are plagued by “moral blindness and historical myopia.”

Goodnight eliminator

SAJ

14/8/05 19:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is interesting to note that the conservative and liberal sites I troll both feel that the Media leans opposite of their views.

I don't care for the Dems, either. But, why would one group say the MSM is liberal and the opposition say that the MSM is owned by the Conservatives?

Just curious as to whether you have any insight.

14/8/05 19:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or, not.

14/8/05 19:47  
Blogger kmg said...

" ...I am sure that you were equally as devoted to Bill Clinton during his reign. ..."

Funny you should mention this. I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1981. Carter had just finished wrecking the Department of Defense (as well as our reputation in the world). President Reagan brought us back and I was in through all of it- plus Bush the Elder's reign. When I got back from Desert Storm, our forces were at a fifty year high of strength.

Then... they came to office and began to systematically deconstruct the greatest military the world had ever seen. Piece by piece... bit by bit. We could see it happening... we could feel the almost palpable contempt that this administration had for us in the military.

Through all of that, though... I remained a professional and a Marine. I personnaly chastised junior Marines for making untoward comments about the Commander-In-Chief. I, and my fellow leaders, would simply not allow it.

One of my dear friends was a crewman on Marine One- the helicopter that the President uses to get from the White House to Andrews AFB, and for other things. Anyway, those Marines had private feelings about this President, but it did not interfere with their mission... because they were professionals and they were Marines.

That sort of thing means something to some people. Professionalism, pride, class, dignity, respect... look them up sometime. Then see if any of those definitions could be applied to any of the ass clowns cluster-freaking around Crawford, Texas right now.

Then see if they could apply to Casey Sheehan. HINT: They do.

Now maybe you can see the problem and the disconnect for some of us.

14/8/05 20:24  
Blogger kmg said...

...and, for the record, whomever it is that said the old media is Conservative is in need of serious help.

That is about as crazy a thought as one could have.

14/8/05 20:26  
Blogger husker_met said...

Just curious as to whether you have any insight.

I think the MSM tends to lean left, but ultimately serves no other master than themselves.

For the record I count FoxNews in that category. They saw an unmet market and went for it (lotta consevatives who were sick of the pandering CNN, banal MSNBC, or wonk-o-centric C-Span).

I try to listen to as many sources as possible, then make my decisions based on the aggregate of what I hear. I think most people are becoming that way.

As the New Media emerges, Old Media will just become another source. Over time I predict they will become less partisan either way.

But what the hell do I know...

14/8/05 20:34  
Blogger kmg said...

They have a hard road to get back on track with market forces... they have resisted it for so long, and now people have been finding their own way.

The institutions are hollow cores that reflect the people inside. In the "old days" (WW-II era), the media reflected its insiders- hard bitten journalists, many of whom had been warriors and who were all interested in what was best for the country.

The cynicism of the sixties caused a complete turnover... and now, that crowd is faced with the internet revolution and the whole talk radio thing.

I think you are correct in that they will come around... but it will never be the same again for any of us. Too many sides now... too many sources.

14/8/05 20:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-Husker

"I try to listen to as many sources as possible, then make my decisions based on the aggregate of what I hear. I think most people are becoming that way."

I agree. I have begun to source more from the Internet and less from Television, for that reason specifically.

"Over time I predict they will become less partisan either way."

Please God? Let that be the case. I feel no representation from either side; because the issues that I'm interested in take a back burner due to the political flame-wars. I have seen so much conflict in the past two-decades or more over the wedge issues that I am completely disgusted with the choices.

But hey, thanks for not chasing me off.

14/8/05 20:52  
Blogger kmg said...

Well, for the past few decades, there has not BEEN any choices...

That is why we are living in dynamic times now, friends!

Sharing ideas means we all win in the long run... right?

14/8/05 21:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Definitely!

14/8/05 21:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-kmg

How about a little background.

I joined the Navy in 1984 and it was the best decision I have ever made. I am forever indebted to the military.

My heart, is with those men and women fighting a War that i believe we should have wrapped up quite some time ago. I despise seeing the reports daily of deaths. And I often think of chunking everything to go back over there and die nobly among my brethren. That bond will never be broken.

I did not express any political opinions during my tenure either. Ronald Reagan was the reason that I had such a bright future, education, a paycheck, 3-4 squares a day, clothes, a warm place to sleep, a sense of dignity and valor, pride in my country, and the opportunity to meet my bride to be.

I voted for Ronald Reagan when I turned eighteen and Bush I is the last Republican I voted for. I never voted for Bill Clinton. I now vote third party only.

14/8/05 21:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-Husker

"For the record I count FoxNews in that category."

I feel that way more about Fox programming than I do the News side of things. Some of the programming is as trashy or trashier than the stuff of Cable TV.

I think it is detrimental to a young mind to be exposed to that sort of thing during the impressionable years. But, I don't think that the kids are perpetuating the desire of the media to increase the number of folks in that long line of trash waiting for free tickets to the Jerry Springer or Maury Povich shows.

I will not shell out money for Cable. When I do watch TV, its antenna based.

With respect to the News side of things, perspective is one-thing, Truth is another entirely, and I don't consider someone reading lines to be an investigative journalist. I consider that repeating, not reporting. So, whether it is cable or not, with all of those choices, there doesn't seem to be any real reliablity.

I don't care for Music set to Graphics and the over use of News Alerts. Kinda feeds the frenzy of fear. It captures a persons attention the same way a magician might...so, while your watching this, you don't see that.

If that even makes sense.

14/8/05 22:31  
Blogger kmg said...

Actually, that did make sense... I have compared the newscasts to a magic show before. It is all about making us perceive exactly what the performer wants us to perceive, right?

Only by looking in different directions will we see the "real" story.

That is why we are here right now, is it not?

14/8/05 23:21  
Blogger husker_met said...

My biggest gripe with MSM is that over the years (at least since the dawn of the 24 hour newscycle) the reporting on all the channels has become shoddy. The whole focus now is first to market. Lots of mistakes get through and unless you happen to watch 24/7 you don't always catch it.

I went off TV completely 3 years ago to remove distractions from my life (writing a thesis at the time) and have never looked back.

It's amazing how unplugging yourself from the flickering box clarifies the mind, and frees up time.

Of course now I spend all my time chasing news on websites and blogs...

14/8/05 23:51  
Blogger kmg said...

I'm where you are. I spend very little time on TV.

I work 50 to 60 hours a week... and spend the rest of whatever "free" time I have staying "informed".

It does get in the blood...

15/8/05 00:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is interesting to note that the conservative and liberal sites I troll both feel that the Media leans opposite of their views.

I don't care for the Dems, either. But, why would one group say the MSM is liberal and the opposition say that the MSM is owned by the Conservatives?

Just curious as to whether you have any insight.

.....
Good morning.
Here's my 2 cents:

Conservative talk radio shows (Rush, G. Gordon, Hannity, etc.), Fox News and bloggers wouldn't be as popular as they are today if there was no liberal bias in the MSM. Look at liberal Air America's dismal ratings. Liberals don't listen because they have MSM.

I watch NBC and Fox News. I read my liberal hometown newspaper on line and occasionally pick up the Washington Times or the Washington Post at the newstand. We also get the Weekly Standard and Human Events.

By the way, I wish Fox News would just drop the "fair and balanced." They really aren't. Just be honest for goodness sake and say what you are. You get more respect that way. They should say "Fox News - Right of Center and Proud of It".

SAJ

15/8/05 04:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a couple of paragraphs from the Boston Globe on a University of Connecticut survey done on journalists:

While 72 percent of the journalists said their profession did a good or excellent job of reporting information accurately, only 39 percent of the public felt the same way. At the same time, 61 percent of the citizen respondents said they disagreed with the statement that ''the news media tries to report the news without bias."

Some survey findings may provide fodder for conservatives who complain about liberal tilt in the press. When asked to identify themselves politically, one-third of the journalists and one-third of the citizens said they were Democrats. The divergence came when 32 percent of the public identified themselves as Republicans, compared with only 10 percent of the newsroom employees. Among journalists who said they voted in the 2004 election, 68 percent reported favoring John Kerry and 25 percent chose George Bush. Yet among the public respondents who said they voted, Bush beat Kerry 54 percent to 44 percent.

SAJ

15/8/05 04:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-kmg

“I have compared the newscasts to a magic show before. It is all about making us perceive exactly what the performer wants us to perceive, right?”

Completely agree. When I see a woman like Laurie Dhue, that beautiful, and dressed to the nines, I see her as nothing more than a distraction (the assistant). When I look at her, I pay less attention to what she has to say. And, somewhere off-stage, while her beauty mesmerizes me, the magician can conduct his performance with my full, undivided interest.

War Employs Theatrical Vernacular & Techniques

•A region of battlefields is called a “theater”
•We “stage” offensives
•Uniform is a banal word for costume
•Generals and heads of state wear make-up before they make television appearances

See the theater and you see the system that the magicians employ. It can be another way.

Oh my Gosh. Now, I’m venturing into La La land.

-husker_met

"My biggest gripe with MSM is that over the years (at least since the dawn of the 24 hour newscycle) the reporting on all the channels has become shoddy. The whole focus now is first to market. Lots of mistakes get through and unless you happen to watch 24/7 you don't always catch it."

Yes. In my mind, I envision a conversation between a high-dollar ad executive and a producer, wherein the ad guy is asking the producer, "Sir, if we over compensate you and sign a long-term contract with you, will promise to shove our product down the throats of the consumer, between blinks”?

...dawn of the 24 hour newscycle".
That is profound. And noteworthy because that deserves a heavy dose of scrutiny in pursuit of the "how did we get to this point?" question.

"I went off TV completely 3 years ago to remove distractions from my life (writing a thesis at the time) and have never looked back.

... off TV completely" ...writing a thesis"
Are you possibly female, single, looking for Love and interested in a single, older, graying, nerdy, veteran?

15/8/05 07:03  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-SAJ

"Conservative talk radio shows (Rush, G. Gordon, Hannity, etc.), Fox News and bloggers wouldn't be as popular as they are today if there was no liberal bias in the MSM. Look at liberal Air America's dismal ratings. Liberals don't listen because they have MSM."

?

“By the way, I wish Fox News would just drop the "fair and balanced." They really aren't. Just be honest for goodness sake and say what you are. You get more respect that way. They should say "Fox News - Right of Center and Proud of It".”

Roger that.

“While 72 percent of the journalists said their profession did a good or excellent job of reporting information accurately, only 39 percent of the public felt the same way. At the same time, 61 percent of the citizen respondents said they disagreed with the statement that ''the news media tries to report the news without bias."

… 72 percent of the journalists said their profession did a good or excellent job of reporting information accurately”

As a good conscientious employee might. I wouldn’t want to jeopardize my paycheck delivery system if the baby needed new shoes and a college fund, especially if my boss might be listening. That’s called a conflict of interest. And asking a journalist who gets paid by the journalism profession to give an honest answer about the state of journalism is tantamount to asking an employee of “Snapple” to comment on what they think of the “Snapple” product; for want of a better example.

If you are ever curious about what is important to someone, don't ask them; observe them instead and see how they spend their time.

I am passionate about homelessness. So, instead of throwing some money at the problem and hoping it will magically disappear,I choose to physically go to the market, gather the supplies, cook meals, and hand deliver them to the Church with the soup kitchen in it.

I find good stuff in dumpsters that can be refurbished and we sell the stuff (bicycles, brick-o-brack, furniture, etc...) to offset the cost of the supplies they need (soap, shampoo, deodorant, toothpaste, toothbrushes, bandaids, ointment, toilet paper, shoes, socks, underwear, OTC meds, food that doesn't have to be refrigerated, blankets, pillows, money for the bus system, haircuts, razors, shaving cream, baby diapers, baby food, formula, temporary housing, etc...).

… only 39 percent of the public felt the same way”

And the journalism profession learned nothing from the survey apparently because nothing has changed. Instead, we see the rise of the “do-it-yourself” journalism occurring in the blogosphere. Where people like you and I have resorted to emailing the writers of a story to seek answers to the questions that never got asked.

I used to watch Joe Scarborough and wish that he would interview the members of the “public” as opposed to pundits who offer insight in return for some form of compensation. Sort of an “Average Joe” reports out in the “country” where this mystical group called the “public” frolic among shiny metal objects that can be purchased at low interest rates.

(Insert any talking head name into the scenario above to check the math)

“At the same time, 61 percent of the citizen respondents said they disagreed with the statement that ''the news media tries to report the news without bias."

In all honesty, I can tolerate bias more than I can tolerate the lack of traceability with a particular story. If any media outlet chooses to run a story, they should follow through with the details of how they arrived at their position. As you mentioned, call a spade a spade. Sac-up and commit.

“Some survey findings may provide fodder for conservatives who complain about liberal tilt in the press. When asked to identify themselves politically, one-third of the journalists and one-third of the citizens said they were Democrats. The divergence came when 32 percent of the public identified themselves as Republicans, compared with only 10 percent of the newsroom employees.”

Interesting. Did the survey produce anything substantive? I mean that does fuel the hatred between the “Us” and “Them” invisible warriors, but it gives me no hope that we will all begin to see “True Grit” journalism. Where’s the beef?

15/8/05 08:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-SAJ

I forgot to address this. Sorry.

"Yet among the public respondents who said they voted, Bush beat Kerry 54 percent to 44 percent."

I'm embarassing myself with the following example to make my point, but you can rip into me about being a smart aleck, as long as your willing to try to see the larger point.

If you look closely at a Kennedy half-dollar, you'll see that it has two sides. A side called "heads" and side called "tails". Some call it the half-dollar and others refer to it as a fity-cent piece.

But, either way, it only buys fifty-cents worth of product.

I have even seen a coin, that has the "head" or the "tail" on both sides. You can buy these at a joke shop or a magic store. It is there to deceive the person not privy to the illusion, that they somehow have the power of choice. So that, no matter how the coin is tossed, it always ends up either "heads" or "tails" and the magician always wins.

15/8/05 08:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You make some very valid points. About the survey though, It was my understanding that the survey respondents were anonymous; therefore, I don't see how there could be any downside to them answering honestly, especially if they are interested in doing a better job of bringing the news to the public. I think any employee in any job will give themselves a higher rating than someone else observing them from the outside most of the time. I think that is usually because they really think they deserve a higher rating.

I have seen other surveys that show that most journalists are left of center. I also saw a survey of journalists from across the country that showed that something like 80% voted for Clinton. I have to admit that the problem with surveys is you can make them say almost anything you want them to. I am always skeptical of partisan polls. I do believe that there are good journalists out there who are able to report the news period without slipping in their own political spin. Unfortunately, I think that most have a really hard time doing that. Bernie Goldberg makes some really good points in his latest book about what has happened to the news media. He talkes about Dianne Sawyer jeopardizing her journalistic integrity by interviewing Britney Spears, as if she is real news. I don't know how you feel about Bernie Goldberg, but he laments the lack of journalistic integrity in the news media. He is sickened about how news media today is all about entertainment and ratings.

SAJ

15/8/05 09:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-SAJ

Thanks for the tip on the book. It sounds like a good read. Britney Spears? I'll reserve comments about her in the interest of tact.

Have you finished the book yet?

And how about that whole debacle with "Distraction Jackson"?

Guilty. Prison. Done. Over.

If you have the ability, please offer my apolgies to eliminator. That was rude and uncalled for and I apologize for allowing myself to drop to that level.

Peace be with you.

15/8/05 10:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The book was excellent, although there were a few people who I didn't agree should be included in his list. But like he says, it's HIS list. I finished it in one day. I couldn't put it down. My husband had the same problem. He also finished it in one day.

The Jackson thing was nauseating. In my mind, the media is out of control. I'm not sure we need 24/7 news coverage. I miss the days when the TV news was just 1/2 hour. That left less time for editorializing and more time for just the facts. Several things of great importance were happening all over the world, and the media made him front page news everyday. The media nowadays thinks it is their job to be judge, jury, and executioner. They need someone to be their poster boy/girl for over-the-top news. Right now it is Natalee Halloway. We can't even watch it anymore. As soon as we see her face, we turn the channel.

As to eliminator, I'm not sure what you are refering to since you are anonymous and there are several anonymous posts on here. Whatever it is, I think eliminator is a big boy and can take care of himself. I wouldn't worry about it. I respect you for apologizing whatever it is you did.

Peace back at you.

SAJ

15/8/05 15:13  
Blogger Morning Star said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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